400NL,τι κάνουμε?

[Dusan]

***** History for hand R5-40330633-428 *****

Start hand: Tue Mar 30 05:50:57 GMT+0300 2010

Table: Randers [40330633] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $2/$4, Real money)

User: sephirothe

Button: seat 6

Players in round: 5

Seat 7: donjoker1 ($166)

Seat 1: _benny123 ($413.60)

Seat 3: 0supreme ($688.30)

Seat 5: sephirothe ($548)

Seat 6: OMG_Ashotik ($561)

donjoker1 posts small blind ($2)

_benny123 posts big blind ($4)

---

Dealing pocket cards

Dealing to sephirothe: [Kh, Ac]

0supreme folds

sephirothe raises $16 to $16

OMG_Ashotik calls $16

donjoker1 calls $14

_benny123 folds

--- Dealing flop [8s, 5d, Ad]

donjoker1 checks

sephirothe bets $39

OMG_Ashotik calls $39

donjoker1 raises to $150 [all in]

sephirothe ???

Ο donjoker είναι fish,έπαιζε περίπου 55/14,κ δν ανησυχώ ιδιαίτερα καθώς το range του εκεί νομίζω είναι τεράστιο.

Για τον OMG_Ashotik δν είχα καλά reads καθώς είχα παίξει ελάχιστα χέρια μαζί του,πάντως φαινόταν πολύ loose-aggressive,σε δείγμα 150 χεριών έπαιζε 37/29.

[holdemgr]

Nomizw oti kai na kaneis to hand sou einai face up ligo-poly

px fainetai kalh idea na kaneis flat wste o LAG na kanei shove me worse alla logw tou parapanw (face up) mallon de tha symbei syxna. Ap'thn allh den apokleietai na'xei set/2pair pou profanws kanei flat gia na mh diwksei to fish. Epishs an exei kapoio weaker hand den prokeitai na se plhrwsei se epomena streets (unimproved) logw tou fish pou einai AI kai kanei protect to pot.

Twra to range tou fish sigoura einai gemato Ax hands alla ap'thn allh de nomizei oti bloffarei pote oute kai kanei semibluff (ta fish den paizoun etsi me draws) ki ara se syndyasmo me ta prohgoumena mallon prepei na skeftesai to fold

Twra an yparxei kapoia allh dynamikh me ton LAG h an esy exeis poly LAG image isws einai OK to flat

[Dusan]

Λόγω του stack που έχει το fish δν αποκλείω να κάνει all-in εκεί εκτός με Ax κ με φύλλα όπως flush draw,67 ή κάτι τέτοιο.Βέβαια μ'ένα μεγαλύτερο stack σίγουρα όπως είπες ένα fish δν θα κάνει κ πολλές φορές semibluff εκεί.

Από τη στιγμή λοιπόν που πιστεύω ότι βρίσκομαι πολύ μπροστά από το range του δν είμαι διατεθειμένος να αφήσω εύκολα το συγκεκριμένο pot,βλέποντας τα 150$ του fish περισσότερο ως dead money κατά κάποιον τρόπο,οπότε δν μ αρέσει κ πολύ το fold.

To all-in το θεωρείς απαίσιο σωστά?

Στο τραπέζι δν είχα παίξει πολύ αλλά νομίζω ότι είχα δώσει ΤΑG εικόνα,ενώ με τον LAG δν είχα καμία προιστορία.

[ineverfold]

min raise isolate the fish .... o ashotik den pezei pote etsi 2 pair or sets especially over 100bb

[holdemgr]

ineverfold έγραψε:

  Παράθεση

min raise isolate the fish .... o ashotik den pezei pote etsi 2 pair or sets especially over 100bb

Giati na theloume na diwksoume ena hand pou exei 3 outs?

Isws yperektimw ton typo alla einai dynato pote na plhrwsei me worse?

H mhpws skopeyoume na kanoume fold se shove? San to famous pleon Sklansky hand sto HSNL?

[ineverfold]

giati 3 outs ? den ton vlepw ekei na exei Ax prolly openend,fd i kati tetio.prosopika ego ime ikanopoiimenos me to pot sto flop kai den thelw na dw turn especially me over 100bb oop vs an aggro player.

telika ti egine sto hand ?

[aizack13]

ineverfold έγραψε:

  Παράθεση

min raise isolate the fish .... o ashotik den pezei pote etsi 2 pair or sets especially over 100bb

wow... giati den pezei etsi set or 2p(an kai to mono 2p pou vlepw einai a5s an exei idea ti kanei pre )?

i mean einai xazo na kaneis isolate me nut hands se auto to flop ton TAG utg opener kai na diokseis ton fish pou milaei meta apo sena kai tha kanei call/push me super wide range.

O ashotik imo prepei na kanei flat 100% tou range tou se auto to spot an thelei na sinexisei.

kata ta alla dn vriskw logo gia allo play ektos tou call, kai an kanei shove o ashotik tote fml w/e

ps: dusan mn postareis apotelesma den uparxei logos na geinei result oriented sizitisi

[ineverfold]

poly kali analisi...alla apo prosopiki empiria kai reads me ton sigekrimeno paixti psilo deep den tha epeze to set etsi . fisika mazi mou pezei diaforetika.

diladi esi protineis just call ? o ashotik me megalo draw tha kanei call i shove ekei ...giati mas exei valei se akrivos to hand pou kratoume..

an kanei shove....fml...

an kanei call imaste oop me akomi 100bb piso mas vs an aggro reg kai to pio pithano tha doume polla asxima fylla sto turn opos Q J ta fylla gia open end kai ta fylla tou flush

[aizack13]

ineverfold έγραψε:

  Παράθεση

poly kali analisi...alla apo prosopiki empiria kai reads me ton sigekrimeno paixti psilo deep den tha epeze to set etsi . fisika mazi mou pezei diaforetika.

an exeis reads ok, alla o dusan eipe oti den exoun history, alla kai pali einai ena pragma to pos tha epeze mazi sou HU to range tou se auto to flop kai allo to pos tha epeze 3 way me ton fish na milaei sto telos kai na exei auto to stack, an exeis tetoia reads then /thread:P

  Παράθεση

diladi esi protineis just call ? o ashotik me megalo draw tha kanei call i shove ekei ...giati mas exei valei se akrivos to hand pou kratoume..

an kanei shove....fml...

an kanei call imaste oop me akomi 100bb piso mas vs an aggro reg kai to pio pithano tha doume polla asxima fylla sto turn opos Q J ta fylla gia open end kai ta fylla tou flush

den kserw pos tha antidrasei o ashotik se pithano flat mas kai se ti range tha mas valei alla to mono sigouro einai oti an kanoume shove(or minraise) tote to calling range(or shoving range tou upothetontas oti kserei pos den exei pote FE) mas exei crush.

Toulaxiston me to flat mas tou deinoume ti dinatotita na min peksei "teleia" apenanti mas kati pou den to epitigxanoume me to shove.

[Johnny22]

plano gia to turn meta apo flat flat?

[AEL 88]

Αποκλείεται 100% παίκτης με 2 pair να κάνει just call.Επίσης όταν έχει draw στο flop πολύ δύσκολα θα κάνει call και με set, όταν μάλιστα εμπλέκονται δύο αντίπαλοι.Κατά +80% θα κάνει raise.Ένας λόγος παραπάνω που παίζετε και οι δύο deep και σίγουρα θα θέλει να φουσκώσετε το pot.Συνεπώς,από τη στιγμή που ο άλλος αντίπαλος δεν παίζει πολύ βαθειά για να μας φοβίζει, απλά allin.

[holdemgr]

Johnny22 έγραψε:

  Παράθεση

plano gia to turn meta apo flat flat?

Ypothetw to standard einai check fold turn (h check/call) kai value bet river an to turn paei check/check (h check/fold river an kaname check/call sto turn) alla den eimai sigouros an o LAG mporei na skeftei kai tha itan pragmatika apaisio na prospathei na kanei value bet me AJ ki emeis na kanoume fold.

Mou kanei megalh entypwsh pou apokleioun polloi ta set ap'to range tou. Nomizw einai to pio standard flat pou yparxei sto poker. Basika de mporw na skeftw kapoio hand pou tha ekana pote raise ekei (Sry aizac eipa to idio me sena opws katalabes)

[crackLiNg]

paidia ti lete? pio set ? pio two pair ?

to range toy periexei OLA ta flush draw kai OLA ta open ended

an exei tin paramikri idea ekei den kanei pote flat me set gt einai to katalilotero flop gia na raisareis to set soy k na pareis max value apo AK (an anixei to fd i to open ended tha fobithei k den tha plirwsei to AK)

ENNOEITE oti an oxi all in kaneis megalo raise gia na kaneis isolate to fish

+ineverfold +AEL

*twra eida poso raise kanei o shortstack opote all in

[ineverfold]

boys ime kinda wasted tora i ora 5:10 am slla tha eperna to pot sto flop i tha ekana stack ton ashotik an ekane slow play set

[ineverfold]

12 tables nl400+ cant fold tptk vs anybody

[Dusan]

***** History for hand R5-40330633-428 *****

Start hand: Tue Mar 30 05:50:57 GMT+0300 2010

Table: Randers [40330633] (NO_LIMIT TEXAS_HOLDEM $2/$4, Real money)

User: sephirothe

Button: seat 6

Players in round: 5

Seat 7: donjoker1 ($166)

Seat 1: _benny123 ($413.60)

Seat 3: 0supreme ($688.30)

Seat 5: sephirothe ($548)

Seat 6: OMG_Ashotik ($561)

donjoker1 posts small blind ($2)

_benny123 posts big blind ($4)

---

Dealing pocket cards

Dealing to sephirothe: [Kh, Ac]

0supreme folds

sephirothe raises $16 to $16

OMG_Ashotik calls $16

donjoker1 calls $14

_benny123 folds

--- Dealing flop [8s, 5d, Ad]

donjoker1 checks

sephirothe bets $39

OMG_Ashotik calls $39

donjoker1 raises to $150 [all in]

sephirothe raises to $532 [all in]

OMG_Ashotik calls $493

--- Dealing flop [8s, 5d, Ad]

--- Dealing turn [8c]

--- Dealing river [4d]

---

Summary:

Main pot: $499 won by OMG_Ashotik

Side pot 1: $764 won by OMG_Ashotik

Seat 7: donjoker1 ($0), net: -$166, [7d, 8d] (FLUSH ACE)

Seat 1: _benny123 ($409.60), net: -$4

Seat 3: 0supreme ($688.30)

Seat 5: sephirothe ($0), net: -$548, [Kh, Ac] (TWO_PAIR ACE, EIGHT)

Seat 6: OMG_Ashotik ($1276), net: +$715, [9d, Kd] (FLUSH ACE)

***** End of hand R5-40330633-428 *****

[holdemgr]

E OK blepontas to apotelesma apoktas kalytero read oti einai asxetos alla prin ap'auto logika tou dineis megalytero sebasmo.

Me to Ad out there an katseis na kaneis tis prakseis den yparxoun kai polla diamond combos + 67s sto range tou (akoma kai to Kd9d einai trabhgmeno alla den kserame oti einai LAGfish) enw ap'thn allh yparxoun Ax hands kai obv sets/2pair

Apenanti se tetoio range kaneis ypologismous kai briskeis poio einai to kalytero paiksimo

cliffs: An kserame oti einai LAGfish tote to AI einai OK diaforetika apenanti se competent paiktes einai h xeiroterh epilogh

[Johnny22]

@those who raise with set/2pair 100% sayto to spot:

just wondering(xwris eirwnikh diathesh mhn parexhghthw pls) me ti range kanete raise sayto to spot?